Engine Rebuild For International Dt466 Manual
School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums 10 miles on DT466 rebuild and. Author Topic Active Member Canada 21 Posts Posted -: 08:02:09 AM I'm wondering what is reasonable to expect of as mechanic's shop to resolve this mishap, or how you would handle this situation if it happened to you.
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I recently had a rebuilt kit put it my 1988 Bluebird, DT466 I use for my river rafting company. First day on the rebuild and a few miles out with a load of rafters I hear a heavy duty rattle coming from the engine compartment, immediately kill the engine and pull over. I'm a rafter not a mechanic but I pop the hood, there's nothing obviously wrong so i fire it up. No more rattle at idle or higher rpm but there's more steam blowing out from the venting hose(?) under the engine so I shut down and call the shop that did the work and they send out a mechanic. He get's there, takes a look see and has me fire it up. Still no rattle so after a couple minutes of checking things out he hops in and we continue our drive to the river, up a big, fairly steep hill with 36 adults, pulling a trailer with 4 rafts and still no rattle but I let him know it seems a little under powered. At the top of the hill and maybe a total of 3 miles of driving with the mechanic, he heads back to town figuring it was nothing serious.
Not half a mile further along the rattle comes back, I drive a little further this time, at different speeds, but the rattle persists and after about a mile of rattling I pull over, shut down and have the mechanic come back. This time he hears the rattle and takes a closer look. Pulls the valve cover and checks a few things, finally deciding to drive it the 6 or so miles back to the shop. I call for alternate transport and continue the raft trip.
On the way back into town we see the bus on the side of the highway hooked up for a tow. Apparently he had made it about 3 miles when the rod blew a hole in the block.
I'm left now with an engine in worse condition than before and out a few thousand dollars and no bus for my raft co. Top Member Canada 1326 Posts Posted -: 10:20:26 AM Doesn't the repair shop have to come good in making your engine 'as good as before the repair' at a minimum? That would be them covering the cost of a comparable, used engine, installed. Or by chance did you sign some work order that had a no warranty type of clause written on it? My second question would be why didn't you take it out on a 'dry' run after picking up the repaired vehicle? Even as a driver I took any freshly repaired vehcle assigned to me out on a short excursion to check for strange noises and vibrations prior to taking on passengers. JC Active Member Canada 21 Posts Posted -: 10:41:48 AM I actually picked it up the day before and drove the bus about a mile to my house, all excited about my refreshed DT.
They also had it out for a test run with no issues. Top Member Canada 1326 Posts Posted -: 10:47:54 AM Well I don't know what else to say other than to hope you can get the repair shop to put your bus back into 'as-received' condition. How far is a one-way trip from passenger pick-up to the rafting area? The reason I ask is that you'll see many churches and other limited-budget operators have gone back running gas-powered buses to avoid costly incidents like you've encountered. Its easier to pick up a used or rebuilt 366 at a low price, pretty much anyone can work on it and any extra fuel dollars you spend are offet by less costly maintenance when major issues come around. JC Active Member Canada 21 Posts Posted -: 11:38:46 AM Thanks for your input and advise JC.
The first bus we used had a 366 but it didn't have the power that the 466 has(had ). I put about 120 miles a day on the bus and the International has been a very dependable bus for us with very few repairs in the 3 seasons we've used it. I was always under the impression that I' get more years from a diesel as opposed to a gas engine.
I'm also in a bind without a bus but there is a '93 bluebird with a dt360, 7 speed manual just retired from a nearby school district. They've been really happy with those busses and say the've been very dependable as well and i know it's been well maintained. I know I'll be sacraficing some power though, but there's not much available within 1000 miles. Advanced Member USA 259 Posts Posted -: 1:08:03 PM i would say he replaces the engine. He caused it and worse they where driving it instead of towing it. Our shop would eat the cost of a reman engine.
Sounds as if he forgot to torque the rod bolts (if the case the threads will be damaged)or over torqued them (broken the bolt) its like a slinky! Useless but fun to watch.
Active Member Canada 21 Posts Posted -: 2:18:29 PM He's suggesting(hoping) it was due to faulty bolts in the rebuild kit and has sent some photos to International. Might be a lengthy process. I just bought the bird with the DT360 for the interim, to keep business flowing. Top Member USA 948 Posts Posted -: 4:47:04 PM That's funny, there are no bolts in a 'Works Kit' (rebuild kit).
You re-use the old ones. The shop MUST make you 'whole', return the vehicle to an operable condition, at their expense. If you want customer service, you NEED an International!
Engine Rebuild For International Dt466 Manual Pdf
Top Member USA 973 Posts Posted -: 5:57:44 PM I've used several 'Works' kits and after the second one I have ordered a set of rod bolts with it. I haven't had a problem re-using the old ones with a DT, but some of the older Caterpillar rebuilds recommended new rod bolts and it sounded like cheap insurance to me. I've seen too many engine failures (none of mine) related to re-used rod bolts. I always order new rod bolts regardless of brand. If it doesn't fit, FORCE it. If it breaks, well, it needed replacing anyway.
Pullin' wrenches for 45 years. Active Member Canada 21 Posts Posted -: 6:00:14 PM ModMech - My mistake, he did buy the new bolts from International seperately.
I spoke with him earlier and the response from International today is that they'll only warrantee the bolts but it also sounds like they may do more upon inspection of the engine, but it might be awhile before an inspector will be in our area, and the mechanic doesn't sound overly optimistic for better coverage from International. He also agrees I'm due back what I had but feels that if he uses an engine with lower mileage I'm getting an upgrade from what I had and I should have to pay more for that. Since it's an '88 I can only go up to 1990? Before there were changes that require a different rad and a few other things so that limits our options somewhat. I think now that I've bought a replacement bus that will give us time to find a reasonable replacement at no expense to me.
In hindsight I guess I would have scrapped this bus rather than do the rebuild and put the money towards a younger bus. Just one of those things that kind of progressed further than anticipated with new liners, a new rad core etc. It's a great bus with a 643 Allison and I think a higher end HP on the engine.
Top Member Canada 1326 Posts Posted -: 6:21:42 PM Is he using the odometer mileage as his 'way out' on putting in a lower mileage engine? How would he be able to prove what work has or hasn't been done to this engine at X miles? Unless he has access to the maintenance history or other documentation showing maintenance from day 1 I'd tell him to pound sand and get to work on installing the engine he owes you. JC Top Member USA 948 Posts Posted -: 7:25:51 PM The DT466 was essentially unchanged until 1994, so anyhitng built BEFORE 1994 will bolt in just fine. In 1994 International introduced the 'New Generation Diesel' or NGD varient of the DTs, and yes there would be significant issues using one of those. But you DO NOT have to change the radiator or anything else to use any DT 466 to the 1993 model year in your bus. You paid for a rebuilt engine, unless they plan to swap in a different block, and perform an in-frame on that as well, installing a newer loer mileage engine does not satisfy their legal obligations.
Unless they refund all your $$$$. If you want customer service, you NEED an International! Administrator USA 4287 Posts Posted -: 03:22:24 AM A 'low mileage' 1990.seen that MANY times. Bear in mind that the instument clusters used in that era were failure prone and often replaced.
International Dt466 Service Manual Pdf
Personally had a 1991 with 35,000 miles on the odometer when retired.it was more like 350,000 miles in reality. JC's right.gotta have the records for that unit and not have a $650 'cluster' appearing anywhere! Active Member Canada 21 Posts Posted -: 08:31:12 AM Thanks you guys for all the input, I wasn't positive on the model years we could swap easily hence the '1990?' Question mark. ModMech, that's basically the resolution we seem to be coming to, to find a used unit and do to it what was done initially to the first one, re-using what he can from the first kit.
He says the head is good, the other 5 liners are good etc., which doesn't seem unlikely (yes?/no?) to me and I don't think I need to push for everything being 'brand new' and have him go to the expense of another kit when these pieces are only very slightly used, and basically 'as new'. Again, I'm a rafter not a mechanic so there may be pieces that shouldn't be re-used or at least take a close look at prior to using again. Top Member USA 2298 Posts Posted -: 10:31:48 AM International says: quoteI spoke with him earlier and the response from International today is that they'll only warrantee the bolts but it also sounds like they may do more upon inspection of the engine, /quote They will absolutely cover anything their faulty bolts broke in the process,including the block! My gues is they'll probably cover a short block. Joe Land of the Free, because of the Brave!
Active Member Canada 21 Posts Posted -: 3:28:30 PM wagon master - that's an encouraging post and I think that would be the right thing for them to do and I'd be more than happy with that but how can they determine if it was truly the integrity of the bolts rather than mechanic error with improperly torqued bolts or, if it's possible, stipped threads. Also, since I'm just a small fish that only buys an occasional used bus and not a big outfit that is a regular buyer of new machines, are they more likely to give me the run around or pass the buck and say it was poor wrenchmanship, since it's not like they'll be risking losing any future sales. Senior Member USA 147 Posts Posted -: 12:33:41 PM I'm glad you finally got some relief from this major pain in the butt.
The shop that did the work is responsible to make you whole. Let me tell you my horror story. We have a 2000 Bluebird with a Cummins ISB. The fuel pump dies and I send it to Cummins for warranty. The tech who replaces the Injection pump drops the lock washer for the pump drive gear into the timing case. He leaves it there and reassembles the engine. We pick it up an my driver gets 7 miles from the dealer and the engine shuts down.
Cummins tows it back and calls me to say that the injection pump is bad, that they will replace it.Then they call me back and say the engine won't start.They check it out and discover the crankshaft gear has sheared the drive pin in the crank among other damage caused by the lock washer jammed between the cam and crank gears. They told me the timing case alignment dowel had walked out and fallen into the gears.Only trouble was all the pins were in place when they pulled the engine apart. It took a year to get Cummins to replace the engine and all they did was supply me with a rebuilt engine they had laying around.I wound up putting it in on my time.Moral of the story.
Keep yelling at somebody until you get relief from an obvious screw up. Topic Jump To.